So Bad It's Good FoRuM
https://sbig.dead-donkey.com/

Comparison
https://sbig.dead-donkey.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8652		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  vohi [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Comparison
Well i didn`t want to flood the encoding topic so made a new one.
Maybe it will be good if someone is having hard time to compare rips.

here is 1 from me.
Witch do u think is better?!?
UnSeen vs C00ldude
Image
Image

Image
Image

Maybe I can bring the specs with AVInaptic if some more specialist joins in.
Its not visible like that but if you save the shots and switch them u can see there is a difference in the AR.
Thats why I ask.
Author:  Pure [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
IMO the top one. And i know most people will go for the sharper one. At least that's what i noticed with other screen comparisons.

Edit:
Oh yeah, i also moved this thread to FAQ / Newbie - the starting point section.
Author:  El Mariachi [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Unseen cropped a bit more from the bottom, but is sharper picture.
Author:  elguaxo [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Trying to compare a whole encode based on a couple of screenshots (probably just keyframes' screenshots) is EXTREMELY inaccurate. The best method would be seeing/comparing a portion of the video, but this is time consuming and not very practical for a forum.

A couple of screenshots + a full DRF analysis (for example AVInaptic -> Statistics -> DRF analysis) is a bit better. Still not the same as comparing the real video, but much better than just screenshots.

And then of course each one has its own taste. I like a sharper picture, but if sharp means also macroblocks on many scenes, then I prefer the dull video rather than a sharp but blocky one.

A recent comparison that shows this problem:
Image
Image

The first picture comes from a better source, has more picture and is sharper. But the video has an Avg. DRF of 4.2 and the video of the 2nd pic has an Avg. DRF of 2.79. The video with the avg. DRF of 4.2 is a blockfest on all action scenes and for me that is bad.

Unseen is an experienced group. I am pretty sure the avg. DRF will be a good one, so I would probably go for the sharper Unseen encode.

Edit: BTW DRF=Detail Removal Factor, the smaller the better. For me anything above 3.6 starts to stink.
Author:  vohi [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thank for the explanations elguaxo :cheer:
But yeah watching videos to compare is hard time :sad:
Author:  elguaxo [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
vohi wrote:
But yeah watching videos to compare is hard time :sad:


:agree:
Author:  vohi [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is the specs for the UnSeeN encode with the DRF Analysis


Code:
[ About file ]

Name: Harry.Potter.and.the.Goblet.of.Fire.2005.DVDRip.XviD-UnSeeN.avi
Date: 21/08/2007 15:35:09
Size: 2,346,522,624 bytes (2237.818 MB)

[ Generic info ]

Play duration: 02:30:38 (9038 s)
Container type: AVI OpenDML indexes multi-chunks (*)
Number of streams: 2
Type of stream nr. 0: video
Type of stream nr. 1: audio
Audio streams: 1
ISFT: VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.2 (build 2540/release)
JUNK: VirtualDubMod build 2540/release

[ About quality ]

Resolution: HIGH (720 x 304)
Width: multiple of 16 (GOOD)
Height: multiple of 16 (GOOD)
Average DRF quality: HIGH (3.022164)
Standard deviation quality: MEDIUM (0.987265)
Std. dev. weighted mean: HIGH (0.228858)

[ Video track ]

FourCC: xvid/XVID
Resolution: 720 x 304
Frame aspect ratio: 45:19 = 2.368421 (~2.35:1)
Pixel aspect ratio: 1:1 = 1
Display aspect ratio: 45:19 = 2.368421 (~2.35:1)
Framerate: 25 fps
Number of frames: 225950 (210870)
Stream size: 1,898,707,619 bytes
Bitrate: 1680.644053 kbps
Qf: 0.307135
Key frames: 2314 (0; 250; 500; 750; 1000; ... 225749)
Null frames: 0
Min key int: 1
Max key int: 250
Avg key int: 97.644770
Delay: 0 ms

[ Audio track ]

Audio tag: 0x2000 (AC3)
Bitrate: 384 kbps CBR
Channels: 6
Sample rate: 48000 Hz
Chunks: 225909
Stream size: 433,766,016 bytes
Delay: 0 ms

[ About MPEG4 encoding ]

User data: DivX503b1393p
User data: XviD0046
Packed bitstream: Yes
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: MPEG custom (*)
Custom intra quant matrix:
      8   8   9  11  12  17  18  24
      8   9  11  12  17  18  24  25
      9  10  13  16  19  23  25  30
     10  14  16  19  23  26  30  31
     14  15  19  22  26  29  31  35
     15  20  22  26  29  32  35  36
     20  21  27  28  33  34  36  37
     21  27  28  33  34  36  37  38
Custom inter quant matrix:
     16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23
     17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24
     18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25
     19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26
     20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27
     21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28
     22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29
     23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30
Number of frames: 225950
Drop/delay frames: 0
Corrupted frames: 0

I-VOPs:   2314 (  1.024 %)                         
P-VOPs: 115485 ( 51.111 %) #############           
B-VOPs: 108150 ( 47.865 %) ############             
S-VOPs:      0 (  0.000 %)                         
N-VOPs:      1 (  0.000 %)                         

Max consecutive B-VOPs: 1

[ DRF analysis ]

Average DRF: 3.022164
Standard deviation: 0.987265
Max DRF: 5

DRF<2>5:      0 (  0.000 %)                         

I-VOPs average DRF: 2.031114
I-VOPs std. deviation: 0.173628
I-VOPs max DRF: 3

P-VOPs average DRF: 2.107052
P-VOPs std. deviation: 0.311440
P-VOPs max DRF: 5

B-VOPs average DRF: 4.020545
B-VOPs std. deviation: 0.141857
B-VOPs max DRF: 5

This report was created by AVInaptic (10-04-2007) on 21 ago 2007, h 18:46:32


And here is the C00ldude`s

Code:
[ About file ]

Name: Harry.Potter.and.the.Goblet.of.Fire.2005.WS.DVDRip.XviD.AC3-C00LdUdE.avi
Date: 21/08/2007 19:10:54
Size: 2,348,324,864 bytes (2239.537 MB)

[ Generic info ]

Play duration: 02:37:04 (9423.590256 s)
Container type: AVI OpenDML indexes multi-chunks (*)
Number of streams: 2
Type of stream nr. 0: video
Type of stream nr. 1: audio
Audio streams: 1
ISFT: VirtualDubMod 1.5.4.1 (build 2178/release)
IAS1: English
JUNK: VirtualDubMod build 2178/release

[ About quality ]

Resolution: HIGH (720 x 304)
Width: multiple of 16 (GOOD)
Height: multiple of 16 (GOOD)
Average DRF quality: HIGH (2.960095)
Standard deviation quality: MEDIUM (0.999856)
Std. dev. weighted mean: HIGH (0.018260)

[ Video track ]

FourCC: xvid/XVID
Resolution: 720 x 304
Frame aspect ratio: 45:19 = 2.368421 (~2.35:1)
Pixel aspect ratio: 1:1 = 1
Display aspect ratio: 45:19 = 2.368421 (~2.35:1)
Framerate: 23.976 fps
Number of frames: 225940 (210951)
Stream size: 1,885,780,980 bytes
Bitrate: 1600.902355 kbps
Qf: 0.305057
Key frames: 2309 (0; 240; 480; 720; 960; ... 225820)
Null frames: 0
Min key int: 1
Max key int: 240
Avg key int: 97.851883
Delay: 0 ms

[ Audio track ]

Audio tag: 0x2000 (AC3)
Bitrate: 384 kbps CBR
Channels: 6
Sample rate: 48000 Hz
Chunks: 98162
Stream size: 452,331,024 bytes
Delay: 0 ms

[ About MPEG4 encoding ]

User data: DivX503b1393p
User data: XviD0040
Packed bitstream: Yes
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: MPEG custom (*)
Custom intra quant matrix:
      8   8   9  11  12  17  18  24
      8   9  11  12  17  18  24  25
      9  10  13  16  19  23  25  30
     10  14  16  19  23  26  30  31
     14  15  19  22  26  29  31  35
     15  20  22  26  29  32  35  36
     20  21  27  28  33  34  36  37
     21  27  28  33  34  36  37  38
Custom inter quant matrix:
     16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23
     17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24
     18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25
     19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26
     20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27
     21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28
     22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29
     23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30
Number of frames: 225940
Drop/delay frames: 0
Corrupted frames: 0

I-VOPs:   2309 (  1.022 %)                         
P-VOPs: 115187 ( 50.981 %) #############           
B-VOPs: 108444 ( 47.997 %) ############             
S-VOPs:      0 (  0.000 %)                         
N-VOPs:      1 (  0.000 %)                         

Max consecutive B-VOPs: 1

[ DRF analysis ]

Average DRF: 3.009701
Standard deviation: 1.436555
Max DRF: 31

DRF<2>9:    559 (  0.247 %)                         

I-VOPs average DRF: 2.037245
I-VOPs std. deviation: 0.803521
I-VOPs max DRF: 30

P-VOPs average DRF: 2.045170
P-VOPs std. deviation: 0.966272
P-VOPs max DRF: 31

B-VOPs average DRF: 4.054913
B-VOPs std. deviation: 1.092423
B-VOPs max DRF: 31

[ DRF analysis (corrected) ]

End credits time position: 02:36:30 (9390.223556 s) - ignored frames: 800

Average DRF: 2.960095
Standard deviation: 0.999856
Max DRF: 14

DRF<2>9:      2 (  0.001 %)                         

I-VOPs average DRF: 2.013876
I-VOPs std. deviation: 0.301453
I-VOPs max DRF: 14

P-VOPs average DRF: 2
P-VOPs std. deviation: 0
P-VOPs max DRF: 2

B-VOPs average DRF: 4.000185
B-VOPs std. deviation: 0.031614
B-VOPs max DRF: 13

This report was created by AVInaptic (10-04-2007) on 21 ago 2007, h 19:18:04


Image
Image


Image
Image


I was goes going with the UnSeeNs one probably because they released the four movies like a pack, but I was curious about the encode because UnSeeN and C00ldude make one of the best rips I`ve seen.
Author:  elguaxo [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
As expected both have great Avg. DRFs. If you like more sharpness, then keep the Unseen release.
Author:  vohi [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Here is another rip I need more expert opinion ;)

Here is the report for Underworld.Evolution.2006.BRRip.Xvid.AC3.PRoDJi.

Code:
[ About file ]

Name: Underworld.Evolution.2006.BRRip.Xvid.AC3.PRoDJi.avi
Date: 10/09/2007 01:50:17
Size: 2,343,241,728 bytes (2234.689 MB)

[ Generic info ]

Play duration: 01:42:03 (6122.84 s)
Container type: AVI OpenDML indexes multi-chunks (*)
Number of streams: 3
Type of stream nr. 0: video
Type of stream nr. 1: audio
Type of stream nr. 2: audio
Audio streams: 2
ISFT: VirtualDubMod 1.5.4.1 (build 2066/release)
JUNK: VirtualDubMod build 2066/release

[ Relevant data ]

Resolution: 720 x 300
Width: multiple of 16
Height: multiple of 4
Average DRF: 3.798758
Standard deviation: 1.242929
Std. dev. weighted mean: 0.767156

[ Video track ]

FourCC: xvid/XVID
Resolution: 720 x 300
Frame aspect ratio: 12:5 = 2.4
Pixel aspect ratio: 1:1 = 1
Display aspect ratio: 12:5 = 2.4
Framerate: 25 fps
Number of frames: 153071 (136283)
Stream size: 1,643,569,083 bytes
Bitrate: 2147.459784 kbps
Qf: 0.397677
Key frames: 2696 (0; 240; 404; 644; 884; ... 152977)
Null frames: 0
Min key int: 1
Max key int: 240
Avg key int: 56.777077
Delay: 0 ms

[ Audio track nr. 1 ]

Audio tag: 0x2000 (AC3)
Bitrate (container): 448 kbps CBR
Channels (container): 5
Sample rate (container): 48000 Hz
Chunks: 153060
Stream size: 342,879,040 bytes
Delay: 0 ms

[ Audio track nr. 2 ]

Audio tag: 0x2000 (AC3)
Bitrate (container): 448 kbps CBR
Channels (container): 5
Sample rate (container): 48000 Hz
Chunks: 153029
Stream size: 342,809,151 bytes
Delay: 0 ms

[ About MPEG4 encoding ]

User data: XviD0046
Packed bitstream: No
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: MPEG custom (*)
Custom intra quant matrix:
      8  10  10  10  11  11  13  15
     10  10  10  10  11  12  14  16
     10  10  11  11  13  14  16  18
     10  10  11  13  15  17  19  23
     11  11  13  15  19  22  26  29
     11  12  14  17  22  28  34  41
     13  14  16  19  26  34  44  55
     15  16  18  23  29  41  55  72
Custom inter quant matrix:
     15  15  15  15  16  17  19  22
     15  15  15  15  16  18  20  23
     15  15  16  17  19  20  23  27
     15  15  17  19  22  25  29  33
     16  16  19  22  28  32  38  43
     17  18  20  25  32  41  50  60
     19  20  23  29  38  50  66  81
     22  23  27  33  43  60  81 106
Number of frames: 153071
Drop/delay frames: 0
Corrupted frames: 0

I-VOPs:  2696 (  1.761 %)                         
P-VOPs: 80762 ( 52.761 %) #############           
B-VOPs: 69607 ( 45.474 %) ###########             
S-VOPs:     0 (  0.000 %)                         
N-VOPs:     6 (  0.004 %)                         

Max consecutive B-VOPs: 1

[ DRF analysis ]

Average DRF: 3.798758
Standard deviation: 1.242929
Max DRF: 8

DRF<2>8:     0 (  0.000 %)                         

I-VOPs average DRF: 2.918026
I-VOPs std. deviation: 0.392286
I-VOPs max DRF: 5

P-VOPs average DRF: 2.916631
P-VOPs std. deviation: 0.638368
P-VOPs max DRF: 5

B-VOPs average DRF: 4.856365
B-VOPs std. deviation: 0.931102
B-VOPs max DRF: 8

This report was created by AVInaptic (09-09-2007) on 10 set 2007, h 01:55:38


And here is for Underworld.Evolution.2006.DVDRip.XviD.AC3-UnSeeN

Code:
[ About file ]

Name: Underworld.Evolution.2006.DVDRip.XviD.AC3-UnSeeN.avi
Date: 10/09/2007 10:41:06
Size: 1,567,041,536 bytes (1494.447 MB)

[ Generic info ]

Play duration: 01:42:03 (6123 s)
Container type: AVI OpenDML
Number of streams: 2
Type of stream nr. 0: video
Type of stream nr. 1: audio
Audio streams: 1
ISFT: VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.2 (build 2540/release)
JUNK: VirtualDubMod build 2540/release

[ Relevant data ]

Resolution: 688 x 288
Width: multiple of 16
Height: multiple of 32
Average DRF: 3.180588
Standard deviation: 1.460764
Std. dev. weighted mean: 1.167927

[ Video track ]

FourCC: xvid/XVID
Resolution: 688 x 288
Frame aspect ratio: 43:18 = 2.388888 (~2.35:1)
Pixel aspect ratio: 1:1 = 1
Display aspect ratio: 43:18 = 2.388888 (~2.35:1)
Framerate: 25 fps
Number of frames: 153075
Stream size: 1,218,862,603 bytes
Bitrate: 1592.503809 kbps
Qf: 0.321484
Key frames: 2632 (0; 250; 407; 657; 907; ... 152960)
Null frames: 0
Min key int: 1
Max key int: 250
Avg key int: 58.159194
Delay: 0 ms

[ Audio track ]

Audio tag: 0x2000 (AC3)
Bitrate (container): 448 kbps CBR
Channels (container): 6
Sample rate (container): 48000 Hz
Chunks: 63782
Stream size: 342,886,656 bytes
Delay: 0 ms

[ About MPEG4 encoding ]

User data: XviD0041
Packed bitstream: No
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: MPEG custom (*)
Custom intra quant matrix:
      8   8   9  11  12  17  18  24
      8   9  11  12  17  18  24  25
      9  10  13  16  19  23  25  30
     10  14  16  19  23  26  30  31
     14  15  19  22  26  29  31  35
     15  20  22  26  29  32  35  36
     20  21  27  28  33  34  36  37
     21  27  28  33  34  36  37  38
Custom inter quant matrix:
     16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23
     17  18  19  20  21  22  23  24
     18  19  20  21  22  23  24  25
     19  20  21  22  23  24  25  26
     20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27
     21  22  23  24  25  26  27  28
     22  23  24  25  26  27  28  29
     23  24  25  26  27  28  29  30
Number of frames: 153075
Drop/delay frames: 0
Corrupted frames: 0

I-VOPs:  2632 (  1.719 %)                         
P-VOPs: 89739 ( 58.624 %) ###############         
B-VOPs: 60264 ( 39.369 %) ##########               
S-VOPs:     0 (  0.000 %)                         
N-VOPs:   440 (  0.287 %)                         

Max consecutive B-VOPs: 1

[ DRF analysis ]

Average DRF: 4.362963
Standard deviation: 5.199555
Max DRF: 31

DRF<2>9:  9377 (  6.143 %) ##                       

I-VOPs average DRF: 2.907674
I-VOPs std. deviation: 1.569146
I-VOPs max DRF: 13

P-VOPs average DRF: 3.630851
P-VOPs std. deviation: 4.726703
P-VOPs max DRF: 25

B-VOPs average DRF: 5.516709
B-VOPs std. deviation: 5.733771
B-VOPs max DRF: 31

[ DRF analysis (corrected) ]

End credits time position: 01:36:09 (5768.96 s) - ignored frames: 8851

Average DRF: 3.180588
Standard deviation: 1.460764
Max DRF: 28

DRF<2>9:   709 (  0.493 %)                         

I-VOPs average DRF: 2.804004
I-VOPs std. deviation: 1.288143
I-VOPs max DRF: 10

P-VOPs average DRF: 2.457460
P-VOPs std. deviation: 1.192589
P-VOPs max DRF: 21

B-VOPs average DRF: 4.255861
B-VOPs std. deviation: 1.126391
B-VOPs max DRF: 28

This report was created by AVInaptic (09-09-2007) on 10 set 2007, h 10:57:43


Image
Image

Image
Image

Image
Image

Image
Image

Image
Image

Image
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Image
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The down 2 shots are from the original posts

Image
Image

Actually I have always loved the UnSeeN rip but this one looks better.
Yes I has the bigger DRF but I don`t know so thats why I ask for you opinions ;)
Author:  flyingsheepcannon [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree, PRoDJi did do a better looking rip

but whats with that last frame?
Did UnSeeN get really lazy or something? Normally its not that bad
Author:  vohi [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah it is strange

Image

Here I done some searching and find the frame of the last shot (maybe not exactly but around it).
And it doesn`t look "pale" like the one from they original post :teeth:
Did they give wrong screenshots :non:
Author:  flyingsheepcannon [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
maybe the person had the brightness/contrast cranked up on their VLC

they were probably :potez: :!
Author:  imnew [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
prodji is makin very good rips
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